Attitudes. And also x4 Stuff.

[LotharBot]

moh, I pretty much laughed at the transcript between you and SoulJah and put it behind me (after agreeing with the other admins that there were some things behind-the-scenes that needed to be more public, to clear up some of the confusion/ignorance that you two probably weren't the only ones who had.) It's not personal between us, and I don't hold a grudge. I made my decision based on your first comment (the second and third ones were posted while the database was being modified; the haphazard deletion that didn't include Jeds' response is due to preggy-brain.) Because the first comment, while not as blatant as the others, is a personal attack that adds no value to the ongoing discussion. Consider how much differently it might have read if you'd said "I think the 'grow a set' comment was inappropriate, and I have a hard time taking comments about 'recognizing excellence' seriously when that sort of blatant disrespect for SoulJah's performance is allowed to stand". See how that's not personal, not drama-stirring, but directly makes a valid point? You'd have gotten nothing but agreement from me, at least. This would have been productive and likely led to introspection, whereas what you actually posted led to flames and more flames.

I've told Jeds he's out of line several times in the past, and he's always responded by trying to fix the problem (he even banned himself, and Drakona banned herself, for a past sportsmanship incident.) I say the same thing to you, and you agree that you're out of line, but you've chosen to escalate and get personal. Likewise, others often raise concerns about how the ladder is run, and we sometimes make changes based on their concerns, and we don't get upset with people (we actually implemented promotion/demotion challenges because of your concerns with making gold.) But when you take cheap shots from the shadows, make snide remarks about "boy scouts" and heads up asses and such, and seem to target others' feelings or egos, it's hard to respond to that with positive change. Have you ever in your adult life found that approach to work to resolve problems? Does Jediluke calling you names (BTW Jeds, seriously, put a sock in it) make you feel inclined to work with him to resolve your differences? Personally, I've found that putting negative labels on people tends to in response -- name-calling makes people defensive. Think about what you're trying to accomplish, and whether you've chosen a method that can reasonably be expected to work.

If you're ever in town, please do look me up. I'll try to blow up your ship 20 times, and you can do the same.

[bahamut]

uhh I banned myself for jediluke calling me a hacker and I wasn't fighting it anymore, I called DKH and jediluke whiners

and whatever map you want to play I'll play, but give me what I want; the vulcan cannon

[Jediluke]

My comment about moh was the fastest way to express how little I think of his snide remarks from the sidelines. It's been my experience that moh has never tried to be constructive but has always come across as desiring to be destructive.

I'm not a saint and I don't pretend to be...but I've done more constructive work for this ladder than you could possibly know moh....which is more than I can say for you at this point.

[LotharBot]

[Jediluke]

depends on your perspective i suppose

[bahamut]

[roncli]

I've got 3 main comments on this thread. First one's directly to moh.

That public conversation you had with Souljah happened in a Mumble text chat with several other pilots in it. I remember at least Wats and a new player to the ladder, might've been Arckona, not sure. My concern was less your trash talking Jedi - and who doesn't like doing that from time to time? - and more the disregard you had for the other pilots in Mumble. I know very little about you or your dealings with the admins outside of some of your match comment threads, and had no idea you were on the short list of People Who Shouldn't Open Mumble When Drunk (a list that includes Morfod and Diablo... but for entirely different reasons!)

All I've seen from you since that conversation is that whenever you see the slightest hint of a transgression that's not immediately acted upon, you feel it's your sacred duty to start jumping down people's throats. If there's any reason Jedi made the comment he did towards you, my guess is that's probably why. Do I agree with Jedi? Kind of, not entirely.

One of the main complaints I often hear from multiple pilots is that Jediluke tends to use his position as DCL admin to bully people into games and get away with it. I've never once since joining the ladder actually see him go against the rules of challenges and what not to get a game. He will use the challenge system when he thinks he's being dodged, but he's not used his position to get around the challenge system. And, that's not what's happening with Souljah, either.

What I've seen, however, is that he often walks a fine line when it comes to attitudes and language, and can often cross that line. "Grow a set" is certainly BM (Bad Manners for those not up to speed with esports terms). It's also some of the tamer of Jedi's words on the site, even in that match comment thread as you found out first hand. It doesn't mean he's RIGHT to cross that line.

I can certainly see calls for bias when his BM gets a slap on the wrist and yours gets match comment privs removed. But what Jedi does is direct... there's no confusion as to what he thinks or how he feels at any given time. He doesn't need to hide behind anything to be direct with what he's saying. With you, you're making snide, passive aggressive comments in various matches, and this after you went off on a drunken rant behind his back. I would rather the line be crossed as Jedi does it than the way you do it.

Whether the line should be crossed at all is another discussion entirely. It's one I don't intend to involve myself in since it doesn't matter what the policy is, I'm simply not going to do that to people. I might throw a ton of salt, but that's just because I'm bad at this game.

[roncli]

Second comment, on x4 vs core.

Today, x4 is not core. Could it be in the future? Maybe, but probably not with this current crop of pilots... I think a majority of the pilots would have to agree that playing with so many missiles is a good skill to have.

This does not mean x4 is not real Descent. Just like fusion-only matches, or D2 or D3, these are still matches recognized by the ladder, and matches that can still teach you a thing or two about the game.

When we talk core, there are two main things that always come up. "What the ladder is playing" and "a balanced game". What we have with something like Wrath or Logic x4 a couple seasons ago is that we're getting the ladder frequently playing something that is not "a balanced game". I think it's right for the admins to step in and pull a level out that would otherwise be in, because in a community this small, it's really easy for something like Wrath to catch fire and have a ton of people play it because it's FUN, but in the end it's really not balanced in comparison to the rest of core. In a larger community, it would be MUCH harder for something like this to happen.

[roncli]

Third comment, Jedi and the rules.

Someone said that they didn't like the fact that Jedi came out and stated that he wouldn't play Souljah, "save for what is required", unless he played x4.

I don't think Jedi's refusal to play Souljah if he doesn't play x4 is out of line at all. The DCL facilitates this kind of standoff nicely. If Souljah refuses to play Jedi in a x4 match, all Jedi has to do is refuse to play Souljah unless challenged. Souljah is within his right to decline ANY x4 match, and Jediluke is within his right to deny Souljah a match at all, outside of being challenged.

No one is breaking the rules here, so what's the problem? If it's the attitude displayed, we've seen far, FAR worse.

[Lady Silver]