descentchampions.org

So, um, the other thread turned into a discussion of what core *is* and how it's chosen and what it means and so forth. I don't want to derail that, since it's valuable. But in the mean time, I want to come back to the actual level selection so we can start the darn season.

So - with respect to Rie2mann, I think the noes have it.

But with respect to Athena and Fuzed, excluding them isn't a step I wan to take without some good discussion as to whether it's the right direction for the ladder.

Keeping them in core retains a connection to the community history; Athena has been a place to settle grudges since prehistoric Descent times. Fuzed as well. Keeping them in core also makes core a bit broader, as it retains both a very high and very low missile count level.

On the other hand, I have the sense that the 'serious' game has been evolving toward the smaller and towards a specific missile load out for some time. The stats show a big falloff in raw numbers in terms of plays for both Athena and Fuzed, and the levels aren't evenly popular across skill tiers. To me, this suggests that pilots are not commonly choosing these maps as places they want to test their normal, full, serious game against each other. Has the game moved past these levels? Has it done so at the high end? Would it be worth kicking them out of core for a season to see whether they organically come back or something else takes their place?

Having not been on the ground as a pilot much in the past year, I don't feel qualified to comment much. I do play Jeds and Mark a lot, and I know in our games, I would say these levels aren't on my A list of places I want to struggle. They're legitimate flavors, but not something on the tip of my tongue, like, yeah, I really want to see how we stack up in Athena today! Athena mcap 2 lv is still exciting to me (though also exotic) but plain old Athena doesn't do anything I wouldn't rather be doing in Wrath or Droids.

My limited perspective as a pilot is therefore that retiring these levels is appropriate. But my perspective is limited.

Do Athena and Fuzed make more sense to you all in or out of core?

If you roll it in a promo challenge does that feel meaty and legit or lame and bs?

If you roll it in a challenge for rank do you feel it's a fair test or are you annoyed by getting something unusual that favors an uncommon preferred style?

If you get *one* game with someone to see how you stack up as pilots, do Athena and Fuzed tell you what you want to know or don't they?

I would be fine with either one making it into main Core, and if I had to choose one it would be Fuzed. From the Core history I've seen, Fuzed is making a push back in after a dip into Extended last season, while Athena is more the map that's falling out. I would also say that while Fuzed is on the low end of the missile count with 2 smarts/1 homer, that's not vastly less than other core maps like Ascend or Salute, while Athena is standing out in left field with three times as many missiles as Audacity. There's a fine line between a nuance and a gimmick, and personally I think Athena crosses it.

There's the standard list of qualifiers for why I don't really have a dog in this fight -- not close to a promo, never fielded a direct challenge, not a relatively good player, blatant dislike of Athena -- so take my opinion with as many grains of salt as you need.

I would like to see Fuzed in the core for this season. Not because I particularly like it, but, because over the last season I fielded many requests to play it in a competitive manner (and I also requested it myself) across the skill level spectrum for matches. Athena, which I have no problem being core either, I feel differently about. From my experience last season I don't believe that Athena is on the same trend line, as I received (nor gave) any requests for Athena in a competitive setting (it was more a last "last resort" type of play). As such, I believe that Fuzed is still a relevant level in which the community has decided to compete and settle scores in and is trending upward, where I feel as if Athena is trending downward in the same category.

Edit: this is MY experience with the two levels from last season and coming into this season, I am not assuming that it is everyone's experience and the opposite experience with these two levels is likely to be other's experience from last season. Just my two cents!

I think that both fuzed and athena offer different competitive flavors. I'm ok personally with leaving both in.

I want black rose back in

For me I LOVE Fuzed, and frankly, it is a very common pick between me And lots Of other good and active players Etc: Mark, Bahamut... But how ever Missle count is a Drastic factor to being a Core level... As much as I ADORE Fuzed I feel it would be Best (-=Not=-) on core...

And please don't get me started on Athena

As a currently non-practicing entity (though I am planning a return) feel free to weight my opinion lower or discard it... but of the two I feel Fuzed brings something more valuable to core: a level that has very few shortcuts and is extremely hard to get lucky in. You really have to WORK for the wins there. It's not just a dogfighter either - the mental elements are there, it's just harder to execute a good ambush.

Athena is more-or-less the opposite; it is so heavy on the missile boating that you can get on a roll before your opponent has gotten adjusted to how it plays... it makes it more variable. It's probably telling that it's the most common place I've given Jediluke a scare. (Of course, it's equally likely he'll double me up.) I'm not so sure that's valuable for core, though it wouldn't be terrible either.

Neither is it a mortal sin to have 16 homers

It's tough to dodge 16 homers at a time but not to dodge one at a time