Hey Cyrus,
I appreciate your encouragement. I did recycle bin all my copies of Retro recently. As a courtesy to Jeds, I flew around a bit with him albeit half heartened to at least investigate what the stir is about X4, and to see some of his moves in a live environment before I trashed my copies. I'm sorry I wasn't able to give the 'full effort' Jedi was hoping for, and I apologize if it seemed like I was throwing or quitting in games, I just wasn't having fun but wanted badly to. I didn't mean to be rude or dismissive to anyone's skills and any rudeness, surliness, etc. are all about my control frustrations.
I definitely did give it the 'college try' as Jedi said. I've upgraded machines many times over the years, probably 5-6 times between the time Descent 1 came out and my initial retirement from descent (which was some time after the last big prize was available... GGL tourney I think in 2005). Each time I have upgraded machines I have had to make adjustments to account for the new system/fps/whatever.
I've played Descent 1 on:
386
486
Cyrix 133
P933
Some system during college I can't remember.
Each time I have had to 'refind' the sweet spot for my controls, so adjusting is something I've done many times. I've never had that much trouble with it before. Typically I just dialed down the sensitivity of the mouse to account for the faster system. It doesn't really work that way any more now that they have de-coupled the mouse from FPS, and in general taken away all the FPS dependent stuff. The 'old school' slider never went long enough the times I tried it, though I'm not sure more would have mattered much. The 'Rebirth' controls seemed more active, lively, almost like you would have to use them in order to be successful in Retro. You need to use the new control system. I decided that maybe if I got a new mouse and keyboard it would feel less like the old stuff. I got super excited when the mouse arrived, some of that old Descent feeling came back. A rush of anticipation, in my mind I thought I would just try the new stuff and it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I bought a Cherry MX keyboard and Mark392's mouse (Thanks for the recommendation Mark!) and went at it. What I found is that I had more fun in the planning and anticipation than the actual game experience. I would smile at the prospect of playing and get super excited, juiced even.
However the more I played, I just found myself not enjoying it. The expectations of movement are very strong, overwhelming even. I think it's mostly a muscle memory thing -- my mind always expects X to happen if I move the controller but Y happens instead. It's been postulated that I'm just rusty and that it will 'come back' -- but it doesn't feel at all like I am de-rusting, rather it feels like I am doing a mixture of de-rusting and learning how to move in a game that always felt like a very, very comfortable shoe to me. Much of the draw of returning was putting this shoe back on, and enjoying -- not having to put forth some effort from the ground up of de-training my muscle memory and retraining it on the new system.
On top of that, D3 has not changed its control system at all. Playing D3 has really verified how different the Retro/Rebirth mouse controls are from the original -- I sit down in D3 and it's pretty much the same. I had to cut the sensitivity I used to use from .4 down to .2 and I'm using a USB overclock of my Wingman Gaming Mouse where I use to use the PS/2 @ 200Hz but it feels close enough. It feels right, it feels just like I expected it to. Retro does not. Every time I sit down, it does not do what my muscles expect or remember. I have had this issue now for many years, before the DCL existed and people sent Rebirth or Retro versions my way. I'd try to pop back into D1, but something always felt wrong about my controls, and so I moved on.
The problem here is that I'd be forced to choose games essentially -- I can play D3 with no extra effort and simply enjoy. Want to play with me? You can find a D3 game pretty much any evening with me these days, although who knows how long that will last. It's the same exe I played on 10+ years ago, no changes. Everything is how I remembered -- sure, I had to adjust the mouse sensitivity, and 'adjust' to the new system I own now with a different video card but you're talking an hour or two to dial in things roughly correct. Furthermore, I'm even having fun experimenting with the mouse Mark392 suggested -- getting into seeing if I can actually make this 'new fangled' stuff better than my old setup. So far I'm not sure -- sometimes I do better on the new mouse, sometimes I do better on the wingman. But I'm sure now my Retro issues havbe nothing to do with 'De-Rusting' or such (But Rusty I sure am at the same time) -- it has everything to do with the mouse controls changing and the community no longer using the original exe. I can pop into d3 even with a new mouse and keyboard and to me it feels more like how D1 used to work -- perhaps something about the framerate dependency that I'm familiar with. The new Retro/Rebirth slider feels more like the old Joystick did in d1/d2 when I tried to convert a looooong time ago but stuck with mouse.
If I decided to 'get used to' the new mouse controls, I'm going to then get cross-irritated/confused when I open D3. The last thing I want to do is remove my enjoyment/familiarity with the one game that currently fits like an old, comfy shoe. I know some of you guys are super hardcore into the ladder and stuff, but I'm not there -- I'm more in the "want to have fun with old game" camp, and take on more of a 'fun' stance overall. I don't consider learning how to replay a game I already comfortable in to be very fun, especially if it comes at the cost of a game I can currently play with zero extra effort.
I also work 7 days a week running my own business, I take care of a family member daily, and I don't have the same amount of time to play that I used to. I used to think about Descent all day at school, play for hours and hours every day for years. I used to play LAN every week for a few hours with a group of excellent pilots. I'm not that guy anymore who is going to by hyper-obsessive about Descent or any game for that matter. I also remember the devastating RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) that I had to deal with when descent was mostly over. It took me about 2 years after I stopped playing for my wrists/tendons to feel remotely normal again, and if you have RSI at all I can certainly point you to an excellent book that has prevented me from doing many of the bad wrist habits I had in the past (but this for when your not playing, hard not to hold tension during play for me). However, I do worry about if I somehow (and I don't have the time to) started playing 4+ hours a day again what would happen to my wrists/tendons. I don't want to struggle to use a PC again, especially when I depend on it for my business. So the intense time-dedication for a ladder, for learning brand new controls is out in my book. Playing Retro just got me angry and frustrated, often within a kill or two...really not much enjoyment. I enjoyed the thought of playing, rather than playing. In D3 I just play and enjoy like old times.
So personally, I will be sticking with things based on the original versions of Descent. Some will say that I only quit because I 'couldn't hang' with the "modern pilots" -- I have to laugh at that and just move on. People can believe whatever they want and that is OK. I wanted a shot at playing Retro with the whole community and it was fun to feel like a 'member' for a bit where I could ask people for Retro games, etc. but every time I actually had to play I just found myself being irritated. An important aspect of my game was predicated on using minimal action to achieve goals, which would include dodging the minimum. I'm catching shot after shot that I feel that the ship should have moved out of the way. I anticipate people coming down a hall, but cannot pinpoint them at the end of the hall. I even guess which area of the cube they'll be in, etc. I've never had such a controller issue any time in the past I've ever played descent, except when Rebirth/Retro is factored in. I'm not saying one cannot pinpoint, or that given time I could not eventually do so -- I'm more saying I don't want to spend the painful time to re-learn muscle memory, then also damage my fun in D3 at the same time.
So my Recycle-Binning of Retro isn't to discredit others, but to relieve and prevent frustration for me personally. Why did I trash it instead of leaving myself a copy to observe? I know if it's installed I'll con myself into thinking I can find some setting, but just end up wasting an evening being frustrated. I've made multiple attempts now to learn the Retro controls over several months. Sure, none of them lasted very long but each time it was the same sequence of me getting REALLY excited about playing Retro and tricking myself into thinking 'this time it will be different' -- I did listen to all the encouragement others gave and I did appreciate the cheering on for me to adjust to the new system. But, I just didn't find dealing with re-training muscle memory to be a very fun thing -- in fact it's probably the most irritating, unfun game experience I can think of joining times RPGs crashed on me hours in before I had saved.
Now on one hand, I really find it frustrating that the game isn't the same anymore, and that much of the community is not interested in the Pre-Rebirth era. However, taking a step back, I realize that Rebirth/Retro has had an important benefit to the community in helping it stay alive. The reason I'm able to still find D3 games is definitely helped by the existence of the DCL and Retro. Not being able to host your own level choice really damaged D3's 1on1 ladders, so the Retro ladder activity keeps people around in all 3 games, and without something to play on a modern system, the community probably wouldn't exist or would be close to dead. Not many people want to keep an XP system around just to play Descent! Although I probably will get one going at some point. So, although I notice many other things slightly different than they used to be in Retro besides the controls (smart/homer lock sound timing throws me off for example, or the ship blob size changing in scenarios) I probably would have moved on and handled all those little things fine had the controls been the old style ala D3. But stack them all together, and it's not something I enjoy.
I do want to be clear that I think it absolutely takes skill to be a Retro pilot, and anyone playing well should be proud of their achievements. I'd love to play and enjoy the game with all of you, but I really have determined it's not for me and the struggle isn't one that is worthwhile to me. D3 plays just fine (for me) on new machines, it's the same old shoe I put on, and that's wonderful! I hope you guys take the venture into D3. If you want a D3 game with me but aren't very experienced, I certainly won't judge your 'overall piloting' by your limited endeavors in D3, in fact I will be impressed by your attempt to play a game that you aren't versed in or confident in. On top of it, I recognize if you are used to the Retro mouse control, you might find the D3 behavior a bit odd -- don't worry, I understand! I applaud the attempt. I hope to see all of you in d3, even if it's just a game or two to give what is a fantastic game another shot.
I still really enjoy D1/D2 talk, so if you want to chat me up about those games, strategies involved, how to beat playstyle X or to analyze demos, I'd still enjoy that kind of thing. I probably will reinstall Retro at some point just to observe games (what a cool feature!) and keep up with people to some extent, but only after I've moved on a bit with my D3-only paradigm and relaxed. Then I won't feel that pull to 'give it another shot' that just ends in me being annoyed. I don't get a lot of personal 'fun time' so I'm a bit protective of it, and I'm sure many of you understand as you've gotten older your plate of things to do grows, and more people rely on you. I'm happy to just be a fan of the ladder who follows it, rather than be a participant. I'm happy to contribute to the knowledgebase of Descent, coach those interested, talk old war stories, whatever! I'm here to relax and be your friend, strategy participant, and companion in the D3 mines should you be interested.
I applaud all of those who still play for their passion for Descent, and I think it's cool that stuff like Self-Destruct Sequence even exists for such an old game (Thanks for the link btw, Morf, I hadn't seen it before). Definitely a fun show, and I'd enjoy being a DCL fan from afar. All those who play, code, and are active participants in keeping the community alive, thank you for your efforts! Hope to see you around
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:29 pm