Core Level List Update

by **Drakona** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:53 am

Core is in the eye of the beholder. When Retro Homers first came out, they weren't; they were niche and the "official" tournament was on Rebirth homers. Now they're beyond core. They're taken for granted. They're required. Sometimes the SpaceOrb is in. Sometimes it's out. Sometimes missiles are in. Sometimes missiles are out. Sometimes all the primaries are required. Sometimes dogfighting is required. What'll we consider non-negotiable next year? Anybody's guess. Things change over time.

It isn't something that any one of us just decides. We've all got our points of view, but "what is broadly played and taken seriously" is the best way I know to figure it out. We decide together what Descent is.

by **Jediluke** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:19 pm

So, if a level has alot of missiles in it.... It's not core? It's niche? What about Nysa and athena?

by **Jediluke** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:29 pm

I can tell that I'm not going to win this argument but I'd like a better definition of what is core and what is niche.... Given my examples of athena and Nysa

by **LotharBot** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:44 pm

I don't think we can give a definition of how many missiles it takes to be core, because that's not exactly the deciding factor.

It's more like... what do players think of as "normal, everyone should be good in this level" and what do they think of as "OK if you don't want to play this", as a group. We don't have very many people speaking out against NYSA, and most of them are OK with it as long as there are also some lower-missile levels. But we have a lot saying no to Logic x4. There has been plenty of past discussion about Athena (LH, GV, NH, mcap 2/6, xmissiles) and what's "core" has fluctuated a little bit from season to season.

Note that a level can have the same number of guns or missiles as another and still not be core. Killbox has a similar loadout to Vamped, but the structure is different. Or a level can have the same structure but different layout and not be core, like Logic x4.

Put another way: I think when you hit the "random" button it should occasionally kick out a "not really my favorite" level, but never a "why the f*** is this on the list?" level. x4 levels are still far enough in the "why the f***" direction for a large enough part of the community that I don't think we can include them. NYSA isn't. Athena with full homers might be.

by **melvin** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:53 pm

What the.. there was a post here, but it never got posted? Anyway, I respect what you can do in x4 jeds, there's a skill to it. im all in favor of a x4 trophy or maybe a smart missile trophy. Hope that's been clear. logic x4 isnt core (to me) because they're smart missiles, not homies. 20 homers has precedence/history/standing in the community. 20 smarts does not. maybe in a couple of years or seasons.

by **melvin** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:59 pm

Honestly, I would rather the core levels not include athena and nysa, being that they're so missile heavy. Any momentum for subbing some lh versions in?

by **Jediluke** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:04 pm

Omg. No.

by **Jediluke** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:05 pm

Instead of logic or logic x4 let's just do logic x2

by **bahamut** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:08 pm

you won't be able to ignore my missile boating skills for much longer ! !