Respawn locations

by **Mark392** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:14 am

To be quite honest, there is no argument about RNG: Because it is unbiased, it is proper.
The definition of Bias helps to better understand the fact,
"noun
noun: bias; plural noun: biases
prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.
synonyms: prejudice, partiality, partisanship, favoritism, unfairness, one-sidedness"

RNG ensures that spawning is fair, because, as Roncli wrote, "it fails to guarantee that one player will gain an advantage over another simply by where a player spawns".

Similarly, where weapons and power-ups spawn after use is not based on ship position, but (and I may be misunderstanding this) is also RNG based, and, therefore, fair to each player.

by **Entropy** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:17 am

That's not actually how it works, but sure.

If the only way to achieve the conclusion I want is to generate support then I will try to pay particular attention to games I play in the future that I feel have the outcome or the overall experience for a pilot affected by RNG spawn mechanics.

by **Morfod** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:44 pm

So have I always been lucky, have I adapted, or sm I not considering the situational unfairness of spawns in all my games?

by **Drakona** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:21 pm

You've adapted.

This is one issue that tends to break down pretty cleanly along better / worse pilot lines. When we discussed this about a year ago -- in the discussion that led to Spawn Previews in Retro 1.3, the better pilots all said, "Spawn invulns make the game worse, learn to MOVE!" and the worse ones all said, "You all just like getting cheap kills. Be FAIR!" And what's interesting about that is, it didn't seem to matter what their heritage as a pilot was, whether they came from D1 or D2 or D3, whether they grew up with spawn invulns or not.

I think it's that the faster you learn to think and to plan and to move, the less of an issue lame spawns are. Getting lined up on a spawning pyro and landing a hit is no easier than on any other sort of pyro. They dodge, same as the rest. A typical dog room is what, four cubes wide? You're rarely much closer to a spawn point than that, let alone the point the other guy spawns at, let alone lined up and ready to go and timed right. And you've still gotta win the fight; lasers + concs put out a DPS that'll compete with just about any primary. In general, a good pilot's pretty hard to hit at the range they usually spawn at, and between the high shields and the concs, they're actually pretty dangerous to engage recklessly. It's the pilots that are easy to hit at that range, who don't try to fight hard right away, to whom things look hopeless.

So yeah. Spawn kills happen to everyone, but I think the better you get, the rarer it is to find yourself in a spot where you feel you truly can't do anything. I actually can't remember the last time it happened to me. It's once every few games at most. Certainly it's much less frequent of a phenomenon than fluke fusion or smart hits. And it doesn't stick out in the larger gamescape of constantly attacking and retreating, constantly being at an advantage or disadvantage. *spawn* "Ok now I'm fighting/running" is business as usual, I dodge and get away same as I usually can in a tough spot . . . Spawning just is not a high risk activity to me, not in most maps*. If it were, I'd be more careful about it.

*Exceptions apply to Ugh and Killbox. Partial exception applies to Ascend x4. Special exception applies to Blubird. See manufacturer for details.

by **Ryguy** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:30 pm

The same applies to reactors in certain levels, IO being the main level that comes to mind. Once I figured out that you can spawn 2 cubes away from something that wants to kill you, you just learn to slide to one side, collect the missiles that tend to spawn there, then go look for the other player.

by **The@$$Man!** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:35 pm

Spawn killing something I don't do in DCLs unless it's a payback move. I don't care if it causes me to lose. I did the same back in the day and still won all the time. When I played with baha in ugh, we were tied 6 or something. He started to to spawn kill me. After two times in a row I just flew into the main room to let him kill me to get the game over with. Nothing pisses me off more than that junk (I could have just sit afk for an hour before spawning but then I would be just as bad as spawn killing.) He's a great pilot and he has to resort to that. Smh. On regular maps I never really had a problem with people spawn killing me. Perhaps these new maps the builders are making should think about having multiple ways out if you spawn next to someone (no spawning in tunnels and so on.) I really don't know what to say. RNG has always been apart of the game and probably always will in one form or another.

(630am typed on cellphone. Not sure what I typed. Hehe. Blah.)

by **Jediluke** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:51 pm

The thing is, anything your opponent can do in a game to kill you (short of cheating) is fair game and you can use the exact same weapons or tactics to return the favor. It then becomes about the 2 things that all these games are about......execution and luck.

by **bahamut** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:58 pm

by **Sirius** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:05 am

Since spawn-killing is completely legal in the DCL, bahamut should be permitted and possibly even expected to do it. Don't let it get to you...