Question about Logic

by **Jediluke** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:59 pm

Ok, so DKH wants to make a level as popular as Logic and would like for us to explain why we feel logic works.

From a design perspective/layout etc...why is this the most heavily played level?

and/or

WHAT is it about a level design that is important for 1 v 1?

by **melvin** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 pm

you can get to anywhere from anywhere, by a number of means, in about 2 seconds, you can run and be safe but you can also force a runner into action, weapon balance, a number of places with almost perfect yet perfectly compromised sightlines so camping is a calculated risk. i like a heavier homer to smart ratio; for me crimson has the perfect secondary balance, maybe with less smarts even.

by **Morfod** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:46 pm

More than one missile trap, and balance the traps. Tempo in Logic is often controlled by owning the two missile traps. Disrupting the pattern is an important tactic, and requires that there be more than one location for missiles to spawn.

Effective orthogonal geometry is a hallmark of DKH levels, and I expect no less. The back area of Logic has a lot of edges that are pleasing to the eye, and provide tactical relevance in tight combat.

Grates. Grates sort the wheat from the chaff very effectively.

Oh, and blind spots/edges. I'm biased.

by **birdseye** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:31 pm

Logic is kind of a remix of Vamped (nothing wrong with that). That's one of the reasons I think it is popular -- it took a tried and true level and took it a new direction that people seem to enjoy. He could remix Athena, or Minerva might be a great candidate for a reduction/remix. Cut out the reactor/back rooms and change up the way the upper areas connect

by **Wats** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:05 am

The design is well suited for multiple desires. You want to dogfight? You have a central place for that. You want to get out of that dogfight? You can in several ways. You like to play with doors? Got plenty of those. Setting traps? Check. Being sneaky with the terrain cover or a little column-fu? Check, check. Logic combines all these elements in fairly compact space, without being awkward. Every pathway has its purpose, and they interact with each other to allow shortcuts and deception. There tends to be a good balance between gunplay and stealth, but you're never safe and the next attack can come in any number of ways.

Logic is a core level because it rewards pilots with a wide range of skills without putting too much emphasis on a particular one. If there is a particular weakness in your game, Logic tends to bring it out. It's a map which is fairly quick for new pilots to learn, yet never seems to dry up as far as producing new surprises and strategies.

Also, I have a fondness for green.

by **DKH** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:22 am

Wow, these are really detailed explanations about Logic! I appreciate the feed back, and I will do my best to make another balanced level.

I also agree with Birdseye that a Minerva re-build is needed. So here is my version called, "Nerva" which I just made tonight. It's been awhile since I've built a good competition level... this was my way of getting back into the groove. I hope you can enjoy it, let me know if you like the changes.

http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1301

Thanks,
DKH

by **Swarthy** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:07 am

https://youtu.be/zuognicaN04

by **birdseye** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:39 am

by **DKH** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:21 pm

Yea, spit it out pretty quick but still took damn near 4 hours LOL. I'll look into removing that single-wide tunnel you mentioned and re-doing the upper grated area aswell. Yea, about the reactor cubes, I use those to prevent missile spawns in small cubes. I believe you are right that a builder could use reactor cubes to create a central missile spawn area.

Question for you... Have you checked out some of my other levels on DMDB? You might like... "Ancient of Days" It's my combination of 3 classics: NYSA, MANES, AGLAEA

http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=449

I know your not a fan of my more current style of levels, but I have several you may like. This list is a bit long, but if you put some time into these you might find something you like.

These have larger dog-fighting rooms:

Ancient of Days
Blackout
Conquest
Contest
Dbox
Fray
Purple
Rapture
Skunked
Tantrum
Tiptoe
Trix
Warzone

-DKH

by **Swarthy** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:14 pm

Wow! We play most of those already when we're not DCL'n. Maybe we can get a few on the core list. Great stuff...you have good flow in your style...hard to emulate. gg.